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Thursday, February 03, 2005

The Doctrine We Have Learned

(words in blue taken from an July 1979 (07-01-1979) tape-Merie Weiss teaching)

Hello Brethren;

Sometime ago I expressed my concern toward the changes we were making to the doctrine we have been taught. I was told Merie Weiss ‘herself’ taught us that we not only will but must have changes as the years pass us by. Also we will know much more than she knew because of our study and growth. I continued to state my concern because I also heard Merie tell us that we would build on the foundation she had placed us on.

We would not be changing the principals she had taught us.

Many times the judgments and doctrine Merie Weiss has left for us on the tapes gives surprising light to what is happening within the true church of Christ today. All we have to do is listen to them and make comparison. Her letters that her wisdom led her to write are also guides to us not only to show us the Old Paths but to shine this light on the wolf that enters the flock dressed as the shepherds that are to be trusted to lead.

I don’t remember the exact month Merie became ill, but I do know the 1979 May trip was the last one we had the blessing of her knowledge, experience, wisdom and understanding. The tape I wish to use for a comparison was made in July of 1979 (07-01-1979). This has to be one of her last tapes.

“The Jordensons have turned away from the faith. Very few of this (kind of problem)has happened in the last 14 years, but they have turned away from the faith and also have accused (me) and have lost their souls.”

Interesting comment, I thought, that the Jordensons had committed an act the likes of which had not been seen in fourteen years. A very serious sin. The last time she had seen this kind of sin happen was 1964 or so when she was cast out of the true church of Christ in her time.

“They have made remarks about the doctrine of which we teach.”

Well of course we have seen this type of thing happen on a regular basis on our watch, so it doesn’t sound so surprising now, our doctrine and foundations are always under question. We legitimize this with the (wise?) statement; ‘We have the right to put anything to the test’. But you may have noticed most doctrinal points that are questioned as a rule do not stand to the so called test as now given by the children of the elder prophet.

“It is one thing to attack the doctrine, then it is something else to prove us wrong”.

Have you truly proven Merie Weiss wrong in her doctrine? In her judgments? In the way she has taught you? You are the church brought out of the paths of perdition. Now you are the church that is refusing the doctrine that was given to you to protect.

“Because, you see, I believe enough in God, I am not an unbeliever, I am very much of a believer that if I am striving to obey God and all of you who have come in the last 13 and 14 years to be taught by many of us that God would not let us stay in error, if we were in error. We don’t believe in that kind of God. ( I believe the scripture she is referring to is Philip 3:15) And so we know that God has given us the truth, and besides if they want to make accusations, which they have been doing in San Jose against the doctrine and the Moyer Letter, which one of the members up there said was full of lies. Well if it is let them prove it. Let them prove me wrong. I am open.”

As it appears Gary Preman, Kim Smith and Paula Preman had by this time the opportunity to bring their doubts before Merie Weiss. She was open. Why didn’t they? And if they were solid on her teachings, what or who changed them? Their studies? Kim Smith shared with me she had learned SO MUCH from Gary Preman. She certainly did. She obviously learned and accepted the changing of the foundations. Instead of standing in the gap with the sword drawn this teacher became part of the destruction.

I was baptized in 1973. Merie Weiss was my teacher. She was a holy and Godly Christian. She was righteous and used by God to bring the true church of Christ out of the liberalism and carnality that was engulfing it. She was taught of the Holy Spirit through her study of the Bible to bring us to the Old Paths Jesus Christ shed his blood for. She brought us in the good way. This church is you. You are destroying it by allowing evil brethren to have their way with you.

“There are people in the church who do not love the church nor do they love the doctrine”.

Since the doctrine builds the church, they are one in the same as with any religion; if I have the doctrine in question I have the church in question and will be responsible for the change on the day of judgment.

We have written many letters to give our side of the story, but especially to warn you of the destruction happening to the body of Christ. We haven’t shared with you our opinions, or our feelings but rather facts concerning those who are leading the flocks. We have been diligent in our communication with you to prove to you why we are holding to the ways that were taught by Merie Weiss comparing them with many scriptures. We have proven our paths.

But I have been called a liar, among many other things, and now I understand why. This seems to be the consistent result.

“Everything I believe in, not everything, but in those three papers---the Brethren Letter, the Holy Spirit Lesson, the Moyer Letter, besides the war lesson against war. But it is all there. In other words they don’t have to say I am a liar or that I tell lies; because the letters are there if I do. No one has proven it. Brother Moyer says I have lied in it. Why hasn’t he answered it? It is over 10 years and sent out all over the United States. He says it has lies in it. Well you know if I was a preacher in the church of Christ and somebody has written something like that and was dissimulating it all over the place I would feel very compelled and just show that person one after another the lies they have told. The only reason he doesn’t do that is because he can’t.”

Have you heard this? ‘I would not answer a letter like that because I won’t cast my pearls before swine.’ This is Gary Preman’s answer to facing situations like accusing letters, you will find it in his talk The Spirit of Rebellion. A quick way of running back to a safe place. His way of not facing a debate is very similar, ‘they are all jackals’. The brotherhood certainly wouldn’t want him to debate jackals.

Because a preacher has a good voice, a theatric manner, a good story to tell doesn’t make him Godly. Perhaps he has a good reasoning ability, looks very authoritive, or presents himself well and holy, we would all agree this is not proof he is not used by Satan.

“He is not capable, he doesn’t have the Holy Spirit. I heard him (Brother Moyer) over his tape, he is a very fine preacher. I mean to hear him, he has a marvelous voice….I don’t know anybody we have that can talk like that man. Very compelling.”


I was cast out two years and six months ago. They didn’t like what I taught opposing their teaching on masturbation, sodomy and travel. They said I murmured because I used names. They placed on my charges oppression but I never saw the proof of these charges. They didn’t like me pointing out the indiscretions of the young adults and congregations that supported these kinds of indiscretions.

And I am sure that the stones on my grave have been piled to a very high degree insuring that I won’t be able to crawl out from underneath them.

“One of the remarks that was made by these people is that I had split the church. You know that’s a dastardly lie because I didn’t have any church to split. I was withdrawn from and kicked out of the church, you might say, ….. the kind of withdraw I had was because they didn’t like what I had taught on the Holy Spirit, and the other things of truth….the church has gone away from all of those and they don’t even believe in the indwelling much less in the function and work of the Holy Spirit.”

Oh yes, and I might add also I was cast out because I held to the teachings concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I would have fought to keep the teaching just as Merie Weiss had handed it to us. Something Tom Cornforth spent a good portion of his rebuke on in the Stanton, California Bible Class. He rebuked me for being a scribe. Bringing in wrong doctrine through the back door using Merie Weiss teachings.

Ironically the doctrine Merie Weiss was fighting for is the same doctrine I am fighting for. Could it be the true church of Christ is now viewing its doctrine through the same eyes as the off-church that cast out Merie Weiss?

How did Merie Weiss assess her experience at the hands of her brethren? Just as we had also assessed our experience at the hands of our brethren. (
see June 21, 2003-Unjust Weights and Balances).

“We do have churches, as John brought out in 3rd John”;

  • ‘I wrote unto the church, but Diotrephes , who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.’

    “What was wrong with preeminence? That he wanted to rule over the people.
    Same thing that we have found here. And so up at Stanton and other places. Charles Tennent and Tom [Chandler] and so they wanted the same thing. When you grasp for power in the church of Christ you are grasping with the other for hell.

    “This man had a church under his thumb and under his power and he wouldn’t even let John come there. John the Apostle.”


    ‘Wherefore if I come I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.’

    “I know what he means because I have been cast out of the church. You don’t go around crying about it you just go and start a church. And save people, teach them and baptize them and we have a church. And a lot of them now. In the next six months we should have four more states.

    Even John was not allowed to come into this church and they were casting out others—forcing them to leave because they were so ugly and unspiritual. And Diotrephes, because he was running this church would not bear anybody to cross him . . . ”

  • Merie Weiss experienced the ‘kind’ of withdraw that was designed to cast her out of the church---I experienced the same thing.
  • Merie Weiss was accused of trying to split the church---I was accused of the same thing.
  • Merie Weiss was accused of teaching wrong doctrine---I was accused of the same thing.
  • Merie Weiss was accused of murmuring---I was accused of the same thing.
  • Merie Weiss and those Christians with her built new churches of Christ---I and the Christians with me will do the same.

    Do I believe this will finally show you that all of this can happen unscriptually? Do I believe you will all finally see that this kind of thing actually happens to the righteous? Do I think you will now understand that Diotrephes exists in each generation causing the need for one to stand in the gap to save true teaching?

    I guess I will have to answer no. Because as the time passes over the churches Merie Weiss brought out of perdition, the same churches are viewing her as someone that was not as spiritual as first believed. What a travesty of justice.

    Your sister in Christ
    Dianne Collier